Electric cars are becoming increasingly greener in the US thanks to a cleaner electric grid


  1. stupendousman


    From the article:

    “The argument that electric vehicles are just as polluting as gas-powered vehicles because they consume electricity produced from polluting sources like coal plants has been debunked on many occasions at this point.”

    This is insufficient, as the question, “how polluting are they?”, isn’t addressed. Additionally, it’s not just emissions that must be measured but pollution from manufacturing, end of life waste.

    This is important as you can’t make claims that one method is superior without having all of the data.

    There is also the issue of cost/benefit over time for various energy sources. Hydrocarbons create emissions, this is true, and that’s a cost. But what is the actual cost? Hypothetical outcomes are just that hypothetical, forcing changes in markets has real costs for people not only in the west buy in developing nations/areas.

    A small increase in costs can be life threatening. Certainly more costs slow development.

    A desire to do good can be a motive for action, but it stops being relevant there, real work must be done to achieve a good outcome. This include falsifying each and every plan of action, and adding costs for failures. If a carbon tax is viable a political action tax should be as well.

    If electrical transportation becomes popular via voluntary interactions then there’s no reason to not support it. But using political action to force adoption has costs that if they’re negative should be born by those who advocate the actions.

  2. b1tchlasagna


    Electric cars would in fairness be greener than ICE cars even if we used 100% coal, but this is cool too. It defeats the argument that anti EV people make without really thinking much ie: It can’t be greener because the electricity powered by dirty fuel

  3. Sybre


    Still doesn’t change the fact that more than half the carbon footprint is from producing said cars. Unless you’re buying an EV after your previous car is completely totaled, you’re doing more harm than good compared to driving a normal car.

  4. LyeInYourEye


    Yo this is exactly what I’ve been arguing against “centralists” who say that electric cars aren’t actually better for the environment. This is how long term design works. You need to set yourself up for a green grid while building a green grid.

  5. bubblyhobo15


    I’ve tried explaining to.mt.gear-head co-worker how point/non-point source pollution works and he still is convinced that his 2004 jeep that gets 15-19mpg avg (I also drive the same model jeep though) pollutes less all together than a Tesla. Even if that was the case right now, we could fix that relatively easily.

    To those who may happen to be unaware, point source pollution is pretty much anything that you can point directly to and say “that’s the problem”. Cars are non-point source because they’re so many. You couldn’t point to one car over millions and say “this is the source of the issue” but you could do this for a power plant. You could look at the statistics and say “all of the coal power plants in the country are polluting more than all the nuclear plants” and then do something in order to change this fairly rapidly (the time it would take to build a new source of energy).

  6. drewthevander


    If every single gas car switched over night to a tesla model 3 for example, what would the stress on the power grid look like?

    How long would it take us to reach the supply demand threshold with all that new demand?

    Lots of work ahead of us still to decommission the gas stations dotting the continent and well as increasing electricity production and charge port locations, but we are closer than I thought I would ever see

  7. 198_Dudes


    I am coming around to electric vehicles. Orignally I was pretty conservative and you hippies could fuck right off.

    But I have come around.

    I need a solution to one dilema: recharge time.

    Really for me this is a bottom line argument. If you solve this then you can own me. But without solving this I may never adopt.

    If I am driving a traditional car and I realize my tank is on empty I am only 7 minutes or so away from a full tank.

    Electric vehicles don’t really have a solution to that. Not yet. I am sure one is in the works though.

  8. hewkii2


    A reminder that even if the power grid is ran with 100% coal, an electric car would still be equivalent to a ~30 MPG combustion engine.

    That’s the power of economies of scale and centralizing power generation.

  9. tuseroni


    yeah this is the idea behind switching to electric cars, even if it still uses fossil fuels for the energy in the short term, the energy can be cleaned up in the long term resulting in a net positive.

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