I’m the guy who “lost” ~4 BTC on Lightning Network

Hi All,

I'm the author of that post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/dlvokv/how_i_lost_4_btc_on_lightning_network/, and wanna give some important advises and explain what happened.

In the end, it was LND that saved my coins and most of them are already RECOVERED.

With huge support from the LND community those were the successful steps:
Step 1: coop-closed channels with funds on seed
Step 2: remote force-closed channels with perCommitPoint in channel.db
Step 3: remote force-closed chnnels where we have to ask peers for the perCommitPoint
Step 4: try with SCB again with remaining channels
Step 5: still open channels, try force-closing with old stat

Advises:

  1. If you have a physical server always use UPS power supply to prevent power fails.
  2. If you wanna force-close channels, always do it manually, one-by-one when your node is FULLY SYNCED.
  3. Create SCBs (static channel backups) every time after opening a new channel and keep your 24 words seed.
  4. After pressing the "RETRUN" button, don't panic, WAIT and don't press Ctrl + C (like me) instantly after that.
  5. Inform yourself how that system works before sending higher amount of coins there.

Regards,
ZipoTm


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24 comments

  1. Cyberiauxin

    |Author

    What amount of BTC would you say you’d need to have in order to make a personal node a necessity?

    I don’t have a ton, and setting up a node seems like it might be pricey.

  2. Mordan

    |Author

    is this only me or what?

    why do I always see anti bitcoin post on my home reddit ?

    This post is only 330 karma and its the only bitcoin post i have seen on my r/all for a week.

    I also always see r/btc posts all the time with very poor upvotes and content. It does seem reddit is ninja trying to fight Bitcoin.

  3. eqleriq

    |Author

    i’ve not followed LN too much, but I assume we know this wasn’t a scam attempt to exit with BTC by plug pulling since that’s not how LN works, OR, that it wasn’t funded and perpetrated by anti-LN entities since it is such a massive comedy of errors.

    My familiarity with this is how it’s been the case study for “LN is bad” so grain of salt

  4. [deleted]

    |Author

    Ive been involved in btc since 2014 , an investor not an IT guy…Im terrible with computers probably the worst person Ive ever met . Im aware of the lightening network but everything else here boggles my mind . Cant someone say this stuff in English , the last thing I want is to lose funds and even if I did I know i wouldnt get them back as I dont understand anything written here . My strength was seeing how much BTC would be worth my weakness is not understanding many of the tech terms , I guess for folks like me i just need eggs in lots of baskets and to always send small amounts , I really didnt realise this could happen on the LN network .
    So for someone that is essentially retarded with technology and computers how do you avoid this ?
    Excuse my dyslexic grammar .

  5. KruncH

    |Author

    You’re the one who rallied the bcashers. **** you, you scammy ****. They still use this ‘example’ to mislesd newcomers into thinking LN is bad. You contributed to their propaganda. Again, **** you.

  6. DetroitStinks

    |Author

    So they average person is supposed to understand all that? Total pain in the ass storing bitcoin safely and spending safely. Reminds me of when all those coal miners lost their jobs and Obama said learn how to code.

  7. tiggs

    |Author

    First and foremost, I’m glad to hear most of your coins are recovered.

    The thing about Lightning that worries me is related to your advice #1. It seems that any time your physical node shits itself with channels open and not synced, there’s a decent chance you lose your funds. That sounds like a pretty crazy risk to take and a pretty crazy stipulation to release the technology with.

    The fact that people are running nodes in their basements without at least a UPS is batshit insane and just shows that not everyone is ready for this type of thing. The fact that a power outage or host failure can lose your money is a flaw with the technology. As is the case with any tech, you have to design safe-guards to protect people from themselves, especially when your intentions are to go large scale.

  8. Cryptoguruboss

    |Author

    This guy lost it in one of the worst case scenarios still recovered almost all his coins… you will only lose coins if you are “reckless” that too is hard as clear from this guys experience. LN works as it’s suppose to . It’s a checking account.. your savings account should always be layer one..

  9. waxwing

    |Author

    > If you wanna force-close channels, always do it manually, one-by-one when your node is FULLY SYNCED.

    I think this is a very important concept for people. I get that most people will never fully understand the intricacies of Lightning, but they should grasp its security model – you need to have the chain to fall back to, if you ever receive money (if you’re only spending you don’t risk anything).

    If it’s not (blockchain) synced you don’t have that, and you can’t really take an active decision to do something (in this case, force close).

    Not that I am claiming you’re automatically safe if you *don’t* take an active decision to do something – but that’s what delays are for; if you’re not able to refer to a live blockchain right now, you need to be able to within a short time window (a day, a week, it depends how you have it set up).

    If even that isn’t possible, then make a trust tradeoff (someone else’s node), or only send not receive (still very useful!), or just don’t use it.

  10. > If you have a physical server always use UPS power supply to prevent power fails.
    If you wanna force-close channels, always do it manually, one-by-one when your node is FULLY SYNCED.
    Create SCBs (static channel backups) every time after opening a new channel and keep your 24 words seed.
    After pressing the “RETRUN” button, don’t panic, WAIT and don’t press Ctrl + C (like me) instantly after that.

    i think this is enough info to realize how far away from mass adoption LN really is….. i would call myself tech-savvy, but don’t want to mess around with perCommitPoint, channel.db, UPS power supply, SCBs or be careful not doing many steps too quick after another……

  11. TheGreatMuffin

    |Author

    So as I understand it from [this issue](https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/2391) the loss happened somewhere end of 2018?

    I remember u/rustyreddit looking into penalty transactions on chain for that time period and he discovered that there were indeed six penalty tx’s, but they all add up to only 0.09746883 bitcoin (quoting the number from the linked twitter thread): https://twitter.com/rusty_twit/status/1189678498337574912

    I remember various online outlets reporting that the number of lost bitcoin doesn’t really add up, but I haven’t followed the reports in depth. Is there any other write up on that number?

    Glad to hear you could recover your funds in any case!

  12. acered24

    |Author

    I don’t know what all this means. But I do recall your scenario was gleefully dissected by bcashers and that was not a good look for bitcoin and LN. So it’s cool you got to eat crow and got your money back and doing an apology tour.

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